INTERVIEW: Walter Koenig on his Hollywood start, social justice, and of course, Star Trek

Star Trek’s Walter Koenig joins me to talk about his memoirs, Beaming Up and Getting Off: Life Before and Beyond Star Trek

MARCH 1, 2021 - A couple weeks ago, I brought you my thoughts on Walter Koenig’s recent book, Beaming Up and Getting Off: Life Before and Beyond Star Trek. And last week, I had the opportunity to sit down with Walter and talk about the book, and some other stuff as well. Over the course of our 45-minute chat, we covered what Hollywood is like now compared to when he started out, why his notes on Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan were so important, as well as his thoughts on the responsibility that celebrities have to comment on social justice.

A recurring theme in our chat was that while Koenig’s life and career have had plenty of their own adventures “before and beyond” Star Trek, he’s glad for the Star Trek association. He told me, “I’ve said, time and again, ad nauseum, that if I had to be identified with one entity in, in this industry, it might just as well be Star Trek as anything else, because I do believe in the socio-political tenet that is reprised in many of the episodes. Star Trek had a lot of good stories that made people think and say, ‘The future could be a better place and hopefully it will be.’”

Specifically about the process of writing his memoirs, he was humble but honest about the job: “It was fun. I truly enjoyed it,” he said. “It was cathartic because I got to say things that I had only said under my breath. I think the work is good. I'm not a writer of great stature, but when I get it right, I think I'm pretty interesting to read. So there.”

You can watch our whole conversation now on YouTube, and I’ll be putting the whole thing out as a podcast episode or two next week. Or, keep reading for a transcript of our conversation. And be sure to pick up a copy of Koenig’s book, Beaming Up and Getting Off: Life Before and Beyond Star Trek, at Amazon.com or other retailers.

Alison Pitt (AP): The book is Beaming Up and Getting Off: Life Before and Beyond Star Trek, and the author is Walter Koenig. Walter, thank you so much for joining me on Daily Star Trek News. It's a real pleasure to have you here.

Walter Koenig (WK): My pleasure.

AP: How much literary license did you use on the stories in the book?

WK: I left some things out, but of course, but everything is true! I didn't make up anything.

AP: One story that really stuck out to me was when you climbed over a fence in a Hollywood studio, to get in and give out your resumes, which is completely insane to me, but it seems to have worked.

WK: I didn't stay in New York after drama school because I thought that the pressure would be so great and I would be rejected everywhere. And once here I had to face the fact that I wasn't going to get anywhere unless I persevered. So I pushed myself a little bit.

So one day I just did that. I went to ABC Studios, in East Los Angeles. They did all their daytime soap operas and afternoon shows from there. And I climbed over the fence with a pack of photographs. And I just went down the corridor, not even waiting to say hello...I'd just drop it on a secretary's desk and then go to the next one.

AP: How has Hollywood changed over time? Do you think climbing over walls is what it still takes or is it just a different place now?

WK: It's quite different. The appropriation of Hollywood by engineers is quite complete. When I was a young actor and went on a casting call (this is just an example) I had my agent with me very frequently. They came along; it was very nice. You had somebody there to hold your hand.

Now, you don't even go in. You find a small studio where they will put you on tape. They'll give you the script to read from and you go home and you memorize it. And then they tape it and they wrap it up and they send it to your agent. And unless you're in called in, you never even meet those people.

AP: And this isn't just since the pandemic, right?

WK: No, no. First of all, when I was a young actor, there were maybe a hundred thousand members of the Screen Actors Guild. Now there's five times as many or more. And there just isn't the time to see everybody and casting directors and producers and directors would just as well look at you on film, because that's the way you're going to be presented if they hire you.

So it's all been simplified and it's good for the actor for one reason, at least from my point of view: there's less stress involved. You know, if I have to go in and read for somebody, the chances are, I may or may not remember the lines, and be concerned about that and stumble about. This way, it's all done in advance. In fact, people will shoot me when I go into their little studio. They let me look at it and if I don't like it, we do it again and again and again. So it’s much easier in that regard. And there's so many more actors now that you can't see everybody that is submitted, right?

AP: You tell a lot of stories about the adverse conditions that you ended up in, like auditions that didn't go anywhere. There's a story about your agent pulling a gun on you. Why didn't you quit? What kept you going?

WK: That's what I talk about with young actors when I give a talk. I say, you’ve got to really, really want it. Either that, or there's nothing else in the world that you can, or that you're equipped to do. Otherwise, forget about it.

I did suffer the disappointments and the ego abuse that goes with being an actor. Most actors have to traverse it at some point. But this is what I knew I could do. I had some very modest talent as an amateur, in schools and summer stock and things like that. And it was the only thing, in assessing my talents, at which I felt I could be better than just okay.

AP: You talk a lot about the “other shoe” syndrome and I wonder: do you still suffer from that? Do you still wait for the other shoe to drop?

WK: Yeah, sure. That was there in place before I was an actor, you know, I was waiting for that. Since the age of three, I think! “Other shoe” syndrome being that if things are going well, the other shoe is bound to drop and everything is going to turn to doo-doo, you know?

AP: But that's one of the inspirational things about your book. It feels like a comradery, because I absolutely suffer from exactly the same thing: when things are going well, I'm just waiting for the thing to come around and knock me off. To hear someone like you talk about that in such an open manner was really comforting.

WK: It's an interesting thing. And I didn't understand that when the first half dozen people gave me a summary of their thoughts about the book. They felt I was talking to them. But I just wrote it, and I wasn't worried about artifice or any kind of posturing. The only way that it would be fun for me is if I made it as real as possible. So what you got is who I am, you know?

AP: There's a section in your book that I think is one of the neatest things. In the appendix, you include the notes that you wrote to Harve Bennett about Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. Firstly: your choice, not to not to mention the whole Khan/Chekov thing to him was a really interesting choice and I highly respect you for that. But that's not what I wanted to talk about.

They asked you to do a “Trekkie run” of the script, which implies that you felt closer to the fans than maybe other cast members or the writers did. Do you consider yourself a fan of Star Trek?

WK: I was asked to do a Trekkie run because I read the first draft and the first draft had Spock dying in the second act. And I thought that was as wrong a decision as you could possibly make! It was Spock, Kirk and the Enterprise! Those are the icons and if you're going to get rid of one of them, then it has to be as theatrical and dramatic as possible. And I assumed that I was repeating what other people had told Harve Bennett. That was his first film with us. And to my utter amazement, astonishment, no one had no one had mentioned it! I mean, that's just the literary tenet that you, that you live by: you don't kill off your most important characters halfway through the story!

So I wrote him that note, and I called him and he was rather rude. He said, “Look, I don't talk to actors.” I said, “I'm not calling you as an actor, I’m calling you about your script! And I'm sure you've heard this before…etc. etc.” Well, he hadn't, but he was sufficiently impressed that after some consideration, he asked me if I would do a Trekkie run on things that were awkwardly written or not consistent with what we had done. There weren't a great many things. There were little things, I don't remember any of them, but I do remember writing back and telling him, we wouldn't say this, you wouldn't do that.

AP: It probably seems really innocuous, but those notes that you made are things that Star Trek fans absolutely appreciate. Somebody was scripted to say the “Klingon neutrality zone”, which isn't a thing. Or, Kirk would never say “aux power”; he would say “auxiliary power”. Little things like that.

That's why the question came up: do you consider yourself a fan? Or because you were a Star Trek actor and involved in conventions and everything, are you too far on the other side of the mirror to be able to appreciate it?

WK: I’ve said, time and again, ad nauseum, that if I had to be identified with one entity in, in this industry, it might just as well be Star Trek as anything else, because I do believe in the socio-political tenet that is reprised in many of the episodes. Star Trek had a lot of good stories that made people think and say, “The future could be a better place and hopefully it will be.”

And every story is that we have those seven people on the bridge. You have the African-American and the Japanese-American and the Vulcan and the Russian and...the over the top actor. I thought, “That's important.” And that's what we believe in, and hope to achieve: a world where we all get along, where we were all one species and that we're that we're there for each other.

AP: There is a quote in here I'd like to read back to you. This is in the second part of the book, the more recent additions. You said, “The convention fans I've met are not nerdy people in weird costumes. They're the life's blood of a better world. Believe it!” Speaking as a fan, I really appreciated that sentiment from you.

So moving beyond Star Trek. Later in the book, you talked about your trip to Burma, and then afterwards, you talked about your son's appearance at the Rose Parade. On one hand, part of the reason you went to Burma is because of your celebrity, but then you declined to go to the Rose Parade because you didn't want your celebrity to detract from the work they were doing.

I'm curious what your relationship is with acknowledging the power that you have to try and make the world better, and whether you feel like you have a responsibility to try and do that?

WK: Well, I probably do have a responsibility. Whether I exercised that responsibility to the extent that I should have...I am embarrassed to say that I haven't. Early on in the book, I talk about HUAC, the House Un-American Activities Committee, and Joseph McCarthy, two entities starting in the late forties and going into the mid-fifties that were a part of a very shameful part of our American society. We were fear-mongering, we were labeling people as being communists. And a strong segment of our population was witch hunting and looking for villains where there weren't any. The people who belonged to the Communist party in the forties, and the thirties were really trying, for the most part, to make America better and they thought this was a roadmap on how to do it.

My father was that way. He didn't slip any atomic secrets to anybody, but he proselytized like mad. We'd go out for lunch and there'd be two pretty girls on the next table. And he'd start telling them about the joys and the benefits of living a life as a communist. It still chokes in my throat, but it scared me. And then we started getting hate mail and I was 12 years old. It left me with a very strong impression.

So I am the generation of the Koenig family that wasn't as vociferous and militant about political philosophy. I was afraid we were going to get thrown in the detention camps. George Takei actually ended up in a detention camp. I thought we were next. (Of course, I didn't know George at the time.) So that's a polite way of saying I didn't stand up the way I should have. Then, and now. I've always felt that I should have been more vociferous and more active.

And that's the thing, it's one of the great pluses about my association with Star Trek, that I got to be part of something that, in a way, is trying to encourage that we look at mankind as one great big soul, and that we all have something to contribute.

AP: What you talk about early in your book is is a very real account of what it was like being a child post-war, and a child of immigrants in New York, and being subject to McCarthyism and that sentiment. I think that's a really, really important part of your book. You talked specifically about how it affects you, but also it's a good insight into what things were like at the time.

WK: As I advanced into my eighth decade, I'm a little less shy about feelings. So I'm inclined to be a little more aggressive and discuss where we are, where we've been, where we're going, and deal with the concern that I have. And articulate those concerns that we have to be on the alert. We can't go through another period like we just went through these four years, or that we went through in the forties, or like we went through during Vietnam, etc. We've got to try to be better. And that's the world. I'm not just talking about America. There are heinous acts and people who carry so much anger and vilification and are so ready to obviate the good things we do, and underscore and emphasize and promote the bad things that happen.

It's not just that Trump was a bad guy, it's that he had so many followers. That he had 70 million people vote for him. That's what scares me, you know? We're a better country than that. I want to believe it.

Just reiterating what I had said earlier: I'm very pleased that if I have to be remembered for only one thing as a performer, it's that I am identified with Star Trek, and Star Trek very frequently had something important for us to listen to.

AP: You were saying, “I'm in my eighth decade.” I'm so looking forward to that! I'm so looking forward to the freedom that comes with age. Plus you get to do really awesome things, like write your memoirs and take a bird's eye view of your life in this narrative sort of way. That’s got to be an interesting undertaking for you, right?

WK: It was fun. I truly enjoyed it. It was cathartic because I got to say things that I had only said under my breath. I think the work is good. I'm not a writer of great stature, but when I get it right, I think I'm pretty interesting to read. So there.

AP: If there's anything looking back over your life, is there a moment that you'd like to just go back and live in for a little while longer?

WK: I've done some things in theater that I thought were well received, and I thought I did a pretty good job. Not so much in film. But there's some performances that I felt good about. People that I've met that I got to know, and they're no longer here. I would love to be able to get a glass of beer, or do something like that with them again, you know? There are probably other things that mean a great deal to me that don't come to mind right now at this moment.

AP: I'll leave you with that one to ponder. What's next for you?

WK: I'm looking for a substantial shovel.

AP: Are we talking a physical shovel or a metaphorical shovel?

WK: I'm thinking I'd like to be the one who determines with what instrument I am buried.

AP: Not soon, I hope! I feel like you can get at least one more expanded edition out of your memoirs.

WK: Actually, I'm trying to write a novel and I think the ideas are really good. I don't know how far I'm going to get. But it's an unusual approach. I write the narratives from the point of view of different people. And somebody dies in every chapter.

AP: What were you saying earlier about not killing people off halfway through the action?

WK: You're right. I can't defend myself on that.

AP: Have you written a novel before?

WK: I did write a novel that almost no one read. It was right after it the Star Trek series went off the air. And I had nothing to do. I had nowhere to go and nothing to do. I had a little baby at home, but I didn't have anything to occupy my life, let alone my creative side. Until one day I woke up and I said, I can't go on like this. Not only am I not receiving any work, I'm not receiving any opportunities to try to get work. I became a non person. I was really having a difficult time handling it. So I decided to write a novel, not having any sense of when it was done, how good would it be? How well would it be received? How many copies I would sell? Whether it even be purchased by a publishing company.

So that's what I did every day for three or four hours. I wrote a bizarre novel called Buck Alice and the Actor-Robot. And I showed it to three people, three professional writers. All three of them incidentally had written for Star Trek.

One was George Clayton Johnson. I don't know if you know that name. He wrote seven episodes. Another was... don't remember... a very good writer. He wrote a play that was on Broadway called Kataki about a Japanese soldier, an American soldier meeting on an Island after the war is over. Not knowing that the war is over.

Those two guys really liked it and they thought I could get it published without any trouble. The third guy was a science fiction writer with the most celebrity. The most notorious and the hottest writer of his time. And that was Harlan Ellison.

He hated it! Hated it! Said it was a terrible story. He said it had no precision. And he went on and on. I was devastated by the reaction, and I was also very angry. Anyway, I put it away in a drawer, and didn't take it out for 18 years. Then I took it out. I showed it to somebody and they showed it to somebody else who ran a very small publishing company.

They bought it, they published, it didn't sell many copies. They lost their rights to the material, but it was a sold to another publisher, another young group of people and they published it. And when their rights expired it went to another publisher and they published. So I probably had the most publishers with the fewest copies sold of any novelists anywhere. But it was great fun doing it.

I had never written, I had never taken an English course in college. So I felt pretty good about it.

AP: That's what I have from me. I really, I can't speak highly enough about Beaming Up and Getting Off. I really couldn't put it down. Walter, thank you so much for joining me.

WK: Thank you.

This transcript was edited for length and clarity.